Donald Trump is often referred to as a figure of historical significance, but his achievement of winning a non-consecutive second term—thus holding two spots in the presidential timeline—has a notable historical precedent: Grover Cleveland, who served as both the 22nd and 24th president of the United States.
For over a century, Cleveland, the first Democrat to hold the presidency after the Civil War, was recognized as the only U.S. president to serve non-consecutive terms. With Trump’s recent victory, that distinction is about to shift. George Cleveland, Grover’s grandson, has a unique perspective on this change. Born in 1952, George never had the chance to meet his legendary grandfather, who held office during the late 19th century and fathered children later in life.
In a conversation with TIME, 72-year-old Cleveland shared insights about Grover’s distinctive presidency and expressed his feelings about comparisons between Trump and his grandfather.
Read more: Donald Trump, Grover Cleveland, and the History of Winning Back the White House
TIME: Your grandfather Grover Cleveland is in the spotlight following Trump’s victory. How does that feel as his descendant?
CLEVELAND: It’s been on my mind for a while. I never really thought we’d reach this point. What’s unfortunate is that the trivia question “Who is the only non-consecutive president of the United States?” was a popular one related to Grover. Now, that’s changed, but he remains the first.
That’s certainly his most famous claim to fame. Are there other parts of his legacy that deserve more attention?
Well, I doubt many people carry $1,000 bills, but he’s on one! Beyond that, Grover was a rather reserved president. He focused on the tasks at hand, addressing issues as they arose. Unlike Theodore Roosevelt, who had a broad ideological vision, Cleveland tackled specific problems, such as the monetary system. He was a staunch opponent of the patronage system, which likely contributed to his loss in the 1888 election.
It’s uncommon for presidents to seek reelection after being voted out. There seems to be a defiant spirit shared between Trump and Grover Cleveland.
The motivations might differ, though. Grover had specific goals he wanted to see through, and I’m not sure that’s the case for Donald Trump. It’s a challenge for me to express this without sounding overly critical of Trump [laughs].
You seem to have reservations about Trump.
That would be a fair assessment.
How do you feel about Grover Cleveland being mentioned in relation to Trump?
I’ve become accustomed to it, but initially, I felt the need to reach for some antacids every time I heard the comparison. It is what it is. Whether I like it or not, and regardless of anyone else’s opinion, Trump won both the popular and Electoral votes.
Read more: These Presidents Won the Electoral College — But Not the Popular Vote
What have the past six months been like for you, especially as it became apparent Trump might actually succeed and Grover’s name was being mentioned?
Honestly, I didn’t get overly excited. I’m just a regular guy. Presidential descendants need to accept that their forebearers’ actions will be analyzed through a modern lens, which can be both fair and unfair.
There’s a group called the Society of Presidential Descendants. We have an unwritten rule to refrain from criticizing other presidents. Each one was duly elected, and while some may have excelled, others may not have done as well.
That sounds like an intriguing organization. Do you hold gatherings?
Absolutely! We don’t have a secret handshake yet, which I’ve been advocating for. But I jokingly tell people we gather to discuss all the UFO documents we’ve supposedly seen.
Are you serious?
[laughs] Not really. The topic has come up occasionally, though, I’ll admit that.
Do you have any insights on who was behind JFK’s assassination?
[laughs] I do, but I can’t disclose that. Interestingly, the first reference to a UFO sighting was made by Thomas Jefferson regarding something observed in the Louisiana skies.
It’s surprising to think Grover Cleveland was president in the 1880s and 1890s, and now his grandson is alive today.
I believe only three living grandchildren of 19th-century presidents remain: my sister Frances, myself, and astonishingly, John Tyler’s grandson, Harrison, who is still alive. I never met Harrison, but I did meet his brother, Lyon, who was a good man.
Do you think Trump is aware of who Grover Cleveland was?
He might be now. He had to walk past Grover’s portrait in the White House. If he’s anything like many others who confuse Cleveland with Taft, because they were both quite hefty, who knows? [laughs]
What do you consider Grover Cleveland’s greatest achievement?
He accomplished a lot of smaller, yet significant things. For instance, he advocated for a substantial investment in the U.S. Navy, which proved invaluable when World War I arrived. Our naval fleet was far more modern than many others at the time.
However, there are also aspects of Cleveland’s presidency that are less commendable, like his expansion of the Chinese Exclusion Act—
Exactly, you took the words right out of my mouth. I was reading up on immigration policies and came across the Chinese Exclusion Act, thinking, “This is appalling!” It would be nice if my ancestor had been more accepting and progressive in that regard, but he wasn’t.
Grover Cleveland was a bachelor when he entered office and married during his presidency, correct?
Yes, that’s right. During the first two years of his presidency, his sister, Rose Cleveland, served as White House hostess. Interestingly, she is noted as the first LGBTQ+ person to hold that informal role.
Are you worried about the direction our country is taking?
Yes, I find the entire notion of Project 2025 quite alarming. However, as I mentioned, this is what we’ve chosen, or at least half the country has. As with past presidents like Grover Cleveland after his first term, if people are dissatisfied, they have the power to vote someone out. Of course, Trump can’t return, as three terms are not permissible.
But he might try.
Oh, absolutely! He may decide not to leave at all!
One positive note about Grover Cleveland is that he accepted the outcome of the 1888 election and exited the office graciously.
Precisely—and he did so with dignity. I don’t believe there was any wrongdoing involved. If there was, I haven’t discovered it yet; it must be tucked away with all those UFO documents.
